As previously discussed, I have been advised by the MHRA that colloidal silver is not a medicine (and that it is therefore illegal to sell it and make medicinal claims). I have also had clear instructions from the Department of Health that I should complain to Trading Standards if colloidal silver is sold as food or a food supplement.
Even with FishBarrel and even though Ebay’s colloidal silver retailers seem to have recently disappeared into the ether, this is still a daunting prospect. A Google search turns up pages and pages of hits and I simply don’t have time to complain about them all individually. For this reason, I sent an email to my local Trading Standards office asking for advice.
I have pasted this below, together with their unhelpful response and my subsequent reply:
I have recently become concerned about the safety and efficacy of
various alternative health products and treatments (and marketing claims
made to promote them). In some cases, I believe vulnerable members of
the public could be discouraged from taking advice from qualified health
professionals. I also believe a substantial sector of the general public
assume that products sold in health food shops are not only efficacious,
but also safe and legal. I do not believe this is always the case and
have recently been making complaints about such products and therapies
to the Advertising Standards Authority and Trading Standards (via
Consumer Direct).
Colloidal Silver is an example of such a product. It is widely available
online (and in health food shops) and sold with the understanding that
it can have medical benefits (for example, to prevent or treat
infection). I find this very worrying – as far as I’m aware, colloidal
silver has never been properly trialled or regulated. There is little
evidence of efficacy, there have been reported side effects and there
doesn’t appear to be any clear idea of what a safe dose would be.
It is clearly not a licensed medicine. It would therefore be illegal to
sell it and claim or imply that it will treat, prevent or cure disease.
I have already made a small number of complaints to Trading Standards
via Consumer Direct. I also contacted the MHRA Borderlines department
for advice as well as the Food Standards Agency and the Department of
Health (in the event that it is being sold as a food supplement in an
attempt to get around Medicines Regulations).
I have had several emails from the MHRA containing advice such as:
In practical terms, this means that if the product could be sold without
a medicines licence, for example, as a food, subject to the removal of
any medicinal claims, the Agency will look to the relevant authority to
deal with those claims, in these cases, the Trading Standards Service.
The MHRA’s primary objective is to safeguard public health by ensuring
that all medicines on the UK market meet appropriate standards of
safety, quality and efficacy and only a small part of the work involves
deciding the status of borderline products. Colloidal silver has been
marketed as an “alternative” for several years and is a popular product
but there is no reliable, clinical evidence to suggest that it is
effective as an antibiotic or other medicinal product.
The Food Standards Agency referred me to the Department of Health, who
yesterday confirmed that colloidal silver is not a permitted ingredient
in food supplements. They advised me to contact my Local Authority’s
Trading Standards department (ie yourselves) to investigate the sale of
any food product or food supplement containing colloidal silver.
Since Colloidal Silver is neither a medicine nor a food supplement, I
can’t see how it can legally be sold as either.
It is so widely available that I do not have time to make individual
complaints about each retailer. A quick Google search turns up a
seemingly endless list. This is just hits from the first two pages:
http://www.ukcolloidalsilver.co.uk/?gclid=CMqtkcfAtakCFQod4Qod8SmiKA
(already reported to Consumer Direct and ASA)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=colloidal+silver&tag=googhyd
r-21&index=aps&hvadid=7485240153&ref=pd_sl_5ei50nbm17_e
http://www.vulcansilver.com/buy-colloidal-silver.html
http://www.colloidalsilveronline.co.uk/
http://www.auravita.com/product/Premium-True-Colloidal-Silver-Liquid-Spr
ay-Pump.NAGO10232.html?RefId=220&adid=NAGO10232
http://www.yourhealthfoodstore.co.uk/personal-health/immune-system/river
s-of-health-high-stability-colloidal-silver
http://www.100percentnature.co.uk/products.php?cat=62
http://www.alchemedica.co.uk/Home_Page.html
http://www.blueherbs.co.uk/shop/pc/viewcategories.asp?idCategory=28
http://colloidalsilveruk.com/#/home/4540692959
http://www.althealth.co.uk/products/advanced-search/?query=colloidal+sil
ver&Submit=Search&quicksearch=1&type=AND
http://www.revital.co.uk/product_search.cfm?searchString=colloidal+silve
r&x=0&y=0
http://www.livingiseasy.co.uk/products/cat1/cat9/cat13/Sovereign_Silver_
Colloidal_Silver_60ml_Dropper_Top/index.html
http://www.nutricentre.com/p-16815-colloidal-silver.aspx
Could you please advise?
Their unhelpful response was as follows:
Can you provide us with a little more information?
When and where have you seen the product for sale?
Regards
Trading Standards
I was all fired up, fresh from complaining about osteopathy and the Guardian and fired back an immediate reply:
Hi,
It is for sale widely online and I have provided links at the bottom of my
original email. They were all found to be selling colloidal silver yesterday
when I composed my original email to you. As I said then, they were just
from the first two pages of Google hits. I also saw lots of examples of the
product for sale on Ebay a couple of weeks ago (but they were not apparent
yesterday – presumably Ebay have clamped down on this).
As I said in my original email, I can complain in detail about a small
number of individual sellers (and have done so already, via Consumer
Direct), but I simply don’t have time to search out every single retailer. I
don’t know if perhaps it would be less time-consuming to challenge larger
agents such as Amazon and PayPal while also publicising (perhaps via the
MHRA and/or Department of Health) the illegality of the product?
Could you please advise further?
I will of course blog any interesting developments.
Josephine Jones 
So what is your complaint exactly about regarding Colloidal Silver ?
What are the examples you have found of actual bad health effects of people taking Colloidal Silver?
What do you say concerning the World Health Organization’s acknowledgement that silver nano-particles in the form of silver sulfadiazine is an essential anti-infective topical medicine?
That the Ag+ ions in solutions have been studied for their antimicrobial potential and have proven to be antibacterial agents against both Gram-negative and Gram-positive bacteria, and antiviral agents against the HIV-1?
Finally, that some silver nanoparticle applications have received approval from the US Food and Drug Administration and that due to FDA guidelines and pressures from the Pharmaceutical industries – that the FDA actually hasn’t said anything about Colloidal Silver, other than they have avoided giving permits for laboratories to specifically analyse safe usage or health benefits of Colloidal Silver (essentially just silver nano-particles suspended in distilled water) ??
Martin,
Thanks for your comment. I aim to write another piece about colloidal silver shortly, giving more background about colloidal silver products and the reasons for my concern.
In the meantime, here (http://nccam.nih.gov/health/silver/) is a useful and informative article about colloidal silver by NCCAM. As it states there, silver does indeed have some medicinal uses. There are therefore some licensed medicines which contain silver.
‘Key Points’ of the NCCAM article are:
“- The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) does not consider colloidal silver to be safe or effective for treating any disease or condition.
-The FDA and the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) have taken action against a number of colloidal silver companies (including some companies that sell products over the Internet) for making drug-like claims about their products.
-Colloidal silver can cause many side effects. One example is argyria, a bluish-gray discoloration of the body, which is not treatable or reversible.
-Tell all your health care providers about any complementary and alternative (CAM) practices you use. Give them a full picture of what you do to manage your health. This will help ensure coordinated and safe care.”
Hi,
Thanks for your reply… however… actually reading the content without “blinkers on” or a preferred view – the actual content you refer to is pointing out that the FDA has NOT actually done any testing, even though its been used in medicines around the world for over 100 years. SO surely – the goal would be to encourage the FDA and others to ACTUALLY carry out full and in-depth tests. What are they afraid of ? Then they wouldn’t have to “consider” based on lack of evidence either way! If there is actually evidence of a real FDA backed study – then please link to it here as I would love to read something even insiders in the FDA say has not been carried out.
Secondly, whilst I totally agree with the FTC and by associations the FDA’s position to take action against any colloidal silver companies CLAIMING that it has drug like capabilities – the FTC are taking action related to unproven statements as marketing tactics by questionable suppliers. This is a far cry from you presumed opinion that it is not a safe product.
As for the Argyria claim – each of the only few examples of this actually happening are well documented on the internet with even the patients openly admitting their crazy excesses in how they actually MADE and took their colloidal silver ! The cases are pretty old too I might add… unless you would like to point me to new examples ? You chose not to cover the brilliant research being undertaken regarding its use as nano-particulates in the effects of its antiviral properties within the body ? Besides Argyria – what other side effects can you actually claim and back up ?
How about comparing the incidence of the side effects of the top 5 pharmaceutically manufactured antibiotics used in the western world against that of the naturally occurring antibiotic of colloidal silver ? I would love to see that stats on the number of problems recorded on the Pharma antibiotics in their trials 🙂 Links would be fine – so that we can all take a look.
Please help me understand why in general, Complimentary / Alternative medicine practitioners as well as their manufacturers have such an uphill struggle to even get testing approval from the FDA – EVEN when private funding is found to allow certificated labs to carry out the tests? Yet Pharma companies like Monsanto has a clear path for testing GM seeds/crops/ medicines and military chemicals without a blink ?
I don’t see you kicking off about the use of Napalm by tree logging companies in their clear cutting of forests – Is that good for the population and environment ?
I totally agree with your stand on mis-advertising !! Instead of kicking off about banning the choice of individuals to choose one product over an alternative, how about standing for open and honest testing of products which the public have expressed a solid interest in around the world ?
In the specific example of silver tonics – they have been practised along with gold in China for thousands of years. I don’t hear of any blue faced folk over there LOL…
How about reading a link within your own link within the US governments own website:
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxfaqs/tf.asp?id=538&tid=97
Quote:”How can silver affect my health?
Exposure to high levels of silver for a long period of time may result in a condition called arygria, a blue-gray discoloration of the skin and other body tissues. Lower-level exposures to silver may also cause silver to be deposited in the skin and other parts of the body; however, this is not known to be harmful. Argyria is a permanent effect, but it appears to be a cosmetic problem that may not be otherwise harmful to health.”
Now that’s the US governments ATSDR’s opinion.. The EPA could do with less arm bending by the Pharma industry if you ask me, and actually pay more attention to its own agency testing for toxic substances!
Everybody knows, over-exposure to anything has side affects – even fat in fast food !!! SO as long as a person is not allergic to silver itself… the worst situation of high exposure (maybe a gallon or two every day for years) will be that they become like a real genuine INtel Blue man from the adverts !!
Martin,
There are a few points I think I need to clarify:
– I do not dispute that there are legitimate medical uses of silver (for example those mentioned in your first comment).
– I am by no means an expert on the FDA and what research may or may not have been done so don’t feel qualified to comment on this.
– I am also no expert in antibiotics trials but it is worth pointing out here that antibiotics have saved millions of lives and risks and benefits of antibiotics are well understood. I do not dispute that antibiotic resistance is a problem.
My concern is the unregulated sale of colloidal silver products which are promoted as being of medical benefit (generally in the UK – since that is where I am based). It is possible to walk into a health food shop and buy a bottle of colloidal silver with the understanding that it can prevent or treat disease. Although this is illegal, people are not generally aware of this.
I don’t believe that colloidal silver products (such as those I’ve complained about) are effective for what they are advertised to treat. I have no idea how safe they are (or what a safe dose would be). Nor, it seems does anybody else. As well as argyria, according to NCCAM, side effects may include neurologic problems (such as seizures), kidney damage, stomach distress, headaches, fatigue, and skin irritation. Colloidal silver may also interfere with the body’s absorption of some drugs, such as penacillamine, quinolones, tetracyclines, and thyroxine. I don’t have time to look for the instances they’re referring to here and will trust NCAM on this. If you doubt what they are saying, then I suggest you look into it yourself.
Thankfully it isn’t up to members of the public (such as either of us, or the people who make colloidal silver in their garage) to weigh up potential risks and benefits of a medicine and decide whether it should be allowed to go on sale. For good reason, we have regulatory bodies to make such decisions. In the UK, that is the job of the MHRA:
http://www.mhra.gov.uk/Safetyinformation/Generalsafetyinformationandadvice/Adviceandinformationforconsumers/MymedicineFromlaboratorytopharmacyshelf/Licensingmarketingauthorisation/index.htm
I have been told by the MHRA that colloidal silver has never been licensed as a medicine but was in use as an antibiotic until the 1930s. The medical profession discontinued it in favour of more effective modern products. I reiterate, if a product is sold as a medicine it should have been properly trialled and should be properly regulated. If it has not been licensed then it is illegal.
To summarise, I am concerned about the illegal sale of unlicensed medicines. I have no problem with the legitimate medical uses of silver.
I hope this is helpful.
Pingback: Colloidal Silver and the Law. A summary and update. | Josephine Jones
Colloidal silver will never be tested because it can’t be patented, therefore the pharmaceutical companies would not be able to make their obscenely high profits from selling it. Although Bayer does use silver on their bandaids and why would they do that unless it works? I have used it for years for many purposes, it is simple, safe, harmless and highly effective. If you want to do some good, why don’t you blog about the toxic chemicals that are foisted upon the gullible public to be used as “medicine”. The number of people harmed and killed by modern pharmaceutical medicine is incalculable, the number of people harmed by colloidal silver is zero.
Thanks for your comment. I have responded to similar criticism in a subsequent post: https://josephinejones.wordpress.com/2011/08/12/colloidal-silver-and-the-law-a-summary-and-update/.
Put simply, I don’t dispute that silver has some legitimate medicinal uses. In fact, I was told by the MHRA that it was used for its anti microbial properties before antibiotics were discovered and developed. However I believe efficacy is very limited and that there are well known side effects.
For good reasons though, it isn’t up to individual members of the public such as you and I to weigh up evidence of efficacy and side effects. Because colloidal silver is unlicensed and unregulated, consumers are not informed about risk. For more information on side effects, I recommend the NCCAM article linked in my previous comment.
With regard to licensed medicines, again I do not dispute that side effects exist. But they are well understood and patients are informed of them. Costs and benefits are well understood. Medicines save lives too.
@ JJ – you and others often mention “side effects” plural of using CS. What exactly are these side effects? I appreciate that argyria is a potential side effect, although not a serious adverse event as it is cosmetic, but what are these other side effects you speak of?
I said down below in another post, why doesn’t someone FOI request the US or UK government and ask for a list of side effects reported from consumption of Colloidal Silver? I would imagine there are very few reported and certainly a LOT less than those for the likes of synthetic antibiotics on the market.
As they say in the US – go figure!
Dear JJ,
I have not used used antibiotics for fifteen years thanks to colloidal silver which I have found to be extremely effective. It’s effectiveness against bacteria in vitro is well-documented, and scientifically undeniable. Bacteria cannot develop resistance to its method of action. Why not ask yourself why so the medical industry fails to study it properly when it has the amazing qualities of in vitro effectiveness and safety? And in the meantime please let the rest of us get on with it. Here’s a case report of a boy with cystic fibrosis, who was failed by antibiotics, his parents rejected the offer of a heart/lung transplant and instead cured him with colloidal silver. Do you want to see that child ill again? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2443992/
Colloidal silver is safe….pure silver has been used for many years in the manufacture of drinking vessels as it was widely known that it contained anti infection properties.
The medical beneficial properties also cropped up in folklore…eg silver bullet against Lycanthropy…yes…fictional, but it reflected the belief in silver’s properties.
You would be more likely to be made ill by handling the coinage used in every day use than consuming 5ml of colloidal silver daily.
The NHS uses bandaging containing silver…
This could enter the body via the skin.
Just read the contra indications on everyday tested prescribed medications…40 on average for each…cardio medications I have seen…have the following advice…”DO NOT USE IF YOU HAVE A HEART PROBLEM.”
The mighty drug companies cannot patent natural products..so scare monger…as they would rather have you treated with their toxic products.
Gold and silver have been used in medicine for years…and aided many…so PLEASE get a life..and stop taking away our freedom of choice.
Use your time instead in fighting against communication device technology which is vastly increasing cancer and tumours, especially amongst the young.
Dear JJ
First of all people who buy colloidal silver have generally done there research know that it is not regulated and are happy with what there buying because they believe it to be safe beneficial FDA approval or not, whether it is or is not is irrelevant and not your call in my view or the worry about what i deem to be safe and beneficial product witch witch works wonders by the way.
I couldn’t put it any better than any of these free thinkers who cared to advise you, i suggest that you get on with you life and stop being battle axe, and if you cant do that at least yous your own mind. You could start by reading the point’s people have made more carefully and researching there clam’s further among other articles and videos. People like you wind me up because you can be petty and narrow minded, direct your energy in the right place’s and you could do good things….So do yourself a favor pull up your intellectual socks and research company’s LIKE Monsanto and others not like Monsanto and be in awe of there crimes against humanity and send them endless stream of letters to whoever will listen.
They used to say nobody likes a smart ass now nobody likes an uncle tom no offense JJ
PS At the very least people will give you positive feedback and respect on these blogs
Regards
Actually most SCAM users don’t do research, they do *presearch*, which is searching for evidence to confirm an idea rather than assessing evidence for and against. In the case of colloidal silver, the only thing it provably and repeatably does is turn you irrevocably blue.
Nobody pretends that medicine is without faults, but problems with medicine validate quackery exactly the way plane crashes validate magic carpets.
I’m really getting tired of this place coming up on google searches for colloidal silver. All I see here is someone who gets off on reporting people for being ~naughty~. The reason they keep passing you from department to department is because they hardly give a hoot about colloidal silver. It’s almost not on their radar to start with so little is the concern they have for it. I think the real question is who is Josaphine Jones? Id guess that ms Jones may be a meter maid by day and pain in the butt by night. You get a kick out of snitching to authorities. Let people use colloidal silver if they want to. It’s been used for a long time before you were born miss. Hiding behing a wordpress accont is not something that get’s my confidence. I bet you’re a guy?
Josephine is not a guy, I am (and my name is also Guy). I’m happy that this site comes up in Google searches and that pisses off proponents of this quackery. Mission accomplished, I’d say.
I was directed here from a forum about silver disinfo. Someone who spends so much time and effort on this type of activity is either obsessed, has zero social life, or is on the take. No way are you doing all of this off your own bat and/or concern. You seem intensely driven to do what you do, but with no explanation exactly why. Why so much all consuming passion about such issues? Tell us why, or otherwise we can only assume you’re lining your pockets with global pharmacy sweeteners to be a disinformation creep.
You may imagine you’re fooling the masses, but in actual fact you’re only reinforcing people’s belief that global pharmacies are waging an all out attack on self help techniques such as silver to rid the Internet of alternatives to big profit patented chemical trash.
You’re [all] becoming too blatantly obvious. Are you too dim to realize this? If you’re going to play the disinfo game, at least put some creativity into it.
I was directed here from a forum about silver disinfo. Someone who spends so much time and effort on this type of activity is either obsessed, has zero social life, or is on the take. No way are you doing all of this off your own bat and concern. You seem intensely driven to do what you do, but with no explanation exactly why. Why so much all consuming passion about such issues? Tell us why, or otherwise we can only assume you’re lining your pockets with global pharmacy sweeteners to be a disinformation creep.
You may imagine you’re fooling the masses, but in actual fact you’re only reinforcing people’s belief that global pharmacies are waging an all out attack on self help techniques such as silver, to rid the Internet of alternatives to big profit patented chemical products.
You’re all becoming too blatantly obvious. Are you too dim to realize this? If you’re going to play the disinfo game, at least put some creativity into it.
As you say, someone who spends so much time and effort on silver disinformation is either obsessed or has zero social life. So why do you do it?
JosephineJones clearly needs to get some hobbies. Sad little person!
Jake, we have regulation and licensing for safety reasons and to stop snake oil sales. I guess you think regualtion is not required and it shodul eb a free for all, I don’t. I guess you would change your mind if an unregulated medicine killed someone you loved. I hvae no dog in this fight, it is clear the laws of the country are beign broken but some oeple think that that’s ok, becasue they believe an untested unprovne product works. Than heavens policy isn’t set by people who just decide do I believe or not, they actually want evidence.
JJ you are spending a lot of time concerning the CS issue, would rather like to see you put this time and effort in explaining how it can be that vaccines are not tested at all and are aproved by the relevant authorities, in my opinion this is very scaring, especially if you follow the information how many persons are getting all kind of negative effects from using these vaccinations including death. In short only in the USA the anual death toll from aproved prescripption drugs is an estimated 450.000 annually.
Until today nobody has died from using CS, only a few cases of Agrya, which is afterall only a cosmetic issue!
I think this comment is probably a spoof but I suppose I may as well respond to your points.
I haven’t spent any time at all on colloidal silver since summer 2011 (except for replying to comments like yours).
Vaccines are tested. Vaccines save millions of lives every year, as do prescription drugs.
Colloidal silver is not safe or effective for treating any disease or condition. Argyria is the most well known side effect but colloidal silver has also been linked to kidney, liver and nervous system problems. It may also interfere with the body’s absorption of some drugs.
http://nccam.nih.gov/health/silver
JJ, please visit the following site: http://silveredge.com, look at the issue #129, some eye opening info concerning requested information of the FDA as well the”donation(s) from Merck to Pub Med, revealed under the act “freedom of information”. Also interesting the article about PubMed. still saying without proof that CS may not have beneficial health effects.
looking forward to your comments on this information. cheers Peter Ps. astronauts and cosmonauts are using CS for purification of their dringing water, don’t think that both countries would take any risk of severe health issues for these crews, but that is just my humble opinion.
@Peter: Issues with medicine validate quackery in exactly the same way that plane crashes validate magic carpets.
There is no credible evidence to support the claims made for colloidal silver. It is alternative precisely because it lacks a credible evidence base.
The site you meant to reference is, of course, selling colloidal silver. What is is about SCAM advocates that they are blind to the profit motive of SCAMmers?
“Vaccines save millions of lives every year” – really, do they? Can you prove that with genuine evidence? No, you can’t.
As for vaccines being tested. No they are not all tested, take for example the H1N1 vaccine that was widely promoted by the governments across the globe for a non-even pandemic. Scare tactics. That vaccine was not tested to the same degree as a new vaccine in development because it was presumed it would be effective and safe as it was based on previous vaccines.
That is not true testing and you are making false claims, which is exactly what your blog is intended to prevent in view of CS. So I am calling you out as a hippocrit.
JJ, you should read the articles very carefully, most headings are saying CS has side effects on kidneys, liver etc. if you read the articles very carefully, there is only an assumption, no proof, furthermore they do not mention quantities or qualities oe how it was tested! To the vaccines you say safe, pls give me the links of real research, not bla bla bla. Guess you got already your flu shot right?
Your next payment is on it’s way. Keep up the good work.
Big Bad Joe [Pfizer]
The Pharma-Shill gambit is so old…..how much are you guys being paid by “Big Silver?”
Big silver? Don’t make me laugh, Loz. The amount of silver in CS is staggeringly minuscule. Do you honestly think silver dealers are getting rich off the tiny amounts of silver being used? Get real. This blog is pure BS. The elusive so-called Josephine Jones seems to like replying under numerous aliases – usually the ridiculing, ignorant and belligerent type.
This is no place for serious debate, it’s purely and simply a platform for ‘Ms Jones’ to shout-down anyone who dares disagrees with ‘her’ rantings, or anyone who sets out a good argument as to why CS is not only something that works, but is also being suppressed by the medical profession in general. “How dare people cure themselves! Who the hell do they think they are?” I call it the Blue Man agenda. Wherever there’s useful information for people to learn about and use CS safely, you can guarantee that some snake-in-the-grass will come along panicking everyone into thinking they’re all about to turn blue, and it’s always a link to the same old ‘blue man’ image. I mean, at least vary your propaganda. The same blue man, time, after time, after time. What a load of nonsense. Thankfully, people aren’t falling for that approach anymore. We see you.
For the record, I have not posted under any other name.
As to the rest of the comment, I simply don’t have time to bicker with these people, nor have I had time to write anything on CS since I summarised the situation in August 2011 (I responded to critics of this nature then.)
In case anyone hasn’t realised, there is a movement driven supposedly by EU concerns for health, but fits nicely into “nothing but BigPharma can treat illness” business model. This stems back to Codex Alimentarius, do a little research into that and I believe a certain pleasant chap called Peter Mandleson was the driving force in getting that ratified in the EU! Sadly, I think JJ is simply deluded or more seriously an industry troll. Now, by law we cannot treat our own illness without the medical industry involved? WOW WHO BENEFITS HERE? Not us for sure! BigPharma makes their money from our illness, keeping us ill and treating symptoms instead of curing. As John D. Rockefeller Jr (the godfather of modern medicine) once said “Competition is a sin!”
@Shill alert: It’s odd that most of the people going around howling “shill!” turn out to have a vested interest in the quackery being promoted. It’s interesting, too, that they always make the same fundamental mistake about science.
Science does not care who makes something. Really, it doesn’t. There are unpatentable drugs being evaluated for cancer and other diseases by scientists right now, in the UK< other EU states, the US and around the world.
All science cares about is: can you prove it works? Science nerds are among the most trenchant critics of abuses of this process by "big pharma" (see Ben Goldacre's Twitter timeline for example).
Science tests claims. The claims of quacks fail the test. The quacks rail against science rather than admit they might be wrong. Call the whaaaambulance.
Oh please don’t be so naive. ‘Science’ is not a paragon of truth. ‘Science’ is simply another marketing tool to prove or disprove whatever the holder of the research purse strings wants – documented soooo many times it’s a moot point. Good stuff published, bad stuff buried or ridiculed or both.
Time and time again we have seen results jinked and even falsified – some companies have been caught in the lie over and over and over again, the pharmaceutical industry is a master at this – especially when too many people drop dead from their drugs.
I love the use of ‘quackery’ by the way. Ridicule is pretty much the first line of defense of bigpharma too.
Colloidal silver may be banned but it’s easy to make your own machine – so long as we have electricity, distilled water and silver it will never be a problem. Just google for a how to :0)
Sure, you can make your own machine. That doesn’t make colloidal silver work as claimed, nor does it stop it turning you irrevocably blue. Amazing how people who rail against “toxins” will pump any old shit into themselves as long as some idiot somewhere claims it’s “natural” or some such bollocks.
Nice comeback chapman – you’ve convinced me.
JJ, You could have used all that time you’ve wasted to actually try colloidal silver out for yourself. Who knows, you may then have even been pro-CS.
@Jimbles – why would someone try something that has been shown not to work, is dangerous & lacks any evidence of efficacy?
I hear cyanide is great for all types of illnesses – perhaps you should try it.
@ Lawrence. Advocating the poisoning of someone is not very pleasant to read about. And before you suggest that promoting the use of CS is advocating poisoning a) I am not advocating it and b) you would need to drink a whole lot of it to poison yourself and c) it is not listed as a poison.
There is a vast amount of evidence to suggest that CS (i.e. nano-sized silver in suspension) has anti-fungal, anti-bacterial and anti-viral effects. That is fact and indisputable.
I agree with the creator of this blog that the promotion of CS as something that treats/cures illness is illegal according to existing statutes in the UK.
If someone wishes to purchase this product, is of sound mind, has carried out their own diligent research and trials it for themselves then WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?
We already live in a nanny state and it is high time people started making decisions for themselves. Live your own life and don’t be told what to think or do.
Please supply evidence to support your claims that colloidal silver is effective to treat or prevent anything.
And as you may have seen, it has already been pointed out there are side effects associated with the use of colloidal silver, some of them irreversible and some of them serious.
Anyone selling colloidal silver alongside claims to treat or cure disease would be breaking the law.
I treated a chest infection that I had using Colloidal Silver. It cleared up within days. Faster than it ever did using antibiotics. That is MY evidence. That is enough for ME. I do not claim that it will have the same effect on others and I am not making medicinal claims for CS, I am merely telling you about MY evidence. If you believe it then that is up to you.
You will not find (m)any clinical trials out there for the reasons stated by others on the web, i.e. CS is not patentable, unless of course it can be linked to a novel patentable delivery device system. Double blind, placebo controlled clinical trials are VERY expensive to run and analyze. The data generally is submitted alongside a new medical/medical device application or an existing one to enable medical claims to be made (i.e. a n indication for the treatment of x, y, z using CS). This isn’t going to happen as explained above.
Read my response to Lawrence below. The evidence isn’t out there and will not be unless the failure of antibiotics continues to become a huge problem. Pharma companies are researching the use of nano-sized silver in various ways but only where there is a potential for profit FACT!! It is the responsibility of us and our representative governments to grow up, and look for alternatives to antibiotics before it is too late.
Silver was used before antibiotics and will be used long after they are gone.
Stop with the hating and lets work together people. C’mon!!
Peace and love to you all
The Worm
It’s ok to sell colloidal silver for non-medical use. So long one doesn’t state for medical use its perfectly fine. It is used in Tokyo underground transport system on banisters. Don’t worry about propaganda you read. It simply works.
Argyria side effects are rare and caused by consuming silver salts or ingesting silver. Colloidal silver contains no silver whatsoever.
Go figure.
The propaganda comes from the side of those selling colloidal silver as a “miracle cure”. They are the ones making money selling it, they are the ones who brush aside the evidence that it does not work as advertised.
Colloidal Silver DOES contain silver FACT.
Colloidal Silver does “work” depending on what work means to you. I personally nebulise and inhale silver solution that I make myself using a controlled electrolysis process. I have tested the particle size and content of the solution that I make. I do this when I feel it is necessary. I am not grey or blue. I am educated, a scientist and informed. I did the research, I made the choice. Just because A.N. OTHER says it will do this or it won’t do this doesn’t sway may decisions because, believe it or not, I am an adult, a sentient conscious being and guess what, I can do my own research and make my own decisions.
These one man/woman crusades are dull, boring and only lead to conflict.
Instead of running to teacher to get the “accused” told off, why don’t you try working with them to address your concerns.
Where I feel able and comfortable to do so, I am happy to answer any silver related questions/concerns you may have. I am not saying I am qualified, but who is? It is not a medicine, it is not a dietary supplement, nor is it a food. In other words the UK government have washed their hands of it and therefore are NOT qualified to answer. Basically they have left it to the public to decide for themselves.
If you think rationally and logically about what I have just said, you COULD argue that it is NOT a priority for the DoH, MHRA, Trading Standards, Food Standards Agency, etc. I read from that that it therefore is most probably not a huge concern to them and therefore shouldn’t be to us, AND it is most likely safe (in the grand scheme of things).
So long as people aren’t making spurious claims and ripping people off, then let it go. Focus your energy on something productive. And most of all, enjoy yourself. Spend time with the family and stay well!! I mean that most sincerely.
The Worm
What you are practicing is called “eccevide-based medicine” – from the Latin, ecce vide, meaning “behold! I have seen!” – it is a system that ignores the obvious and well documented fact that expectation preconditions observation.
The colloidal silver “health” industry in general practices “ecnedive-based medicine” where belief is in inverse proportion to evidence, so that when something is robustly contradicted by the best available evidence, it is assumed to be valid and the evidence is presumed to be evidence of conspiracy and suppression. This type of thinking is characterised by Stephen Law in his excellent book Believing Bullshit as an “intellectual black hole” because it is inherently self-reinforcing and there is no way to correct an incorrect belief.
@ Guy Chapman
So what you are describing is the “placebo effect”, correct? Can you explain placebo effect? Can anyone?
You can apply your logic to any product taken for the alleviation of symptoms. Granted a double blind, placebo-controlled study is more likely to produce results accepted by the scientific community, but it still doesn’t explain the placebo effect and it still doesn’t explain why a product will “work” with some and not others.
There are no studies carried out in this way for CS for the reasons I, and others, have previously mentioned.
To continue to bash CS users and “believers” because of the lack of evidence is one of the most ridiculous arguments I have ever seen.
If I were a billionaire I would happily fund a double-blind, placebo controlled study for the use of CS in various non-life threatening conditions (or at least where life threatening in combination with the current recommended treatment). And I would be happy to STFU if the results proved without doubt that CS was no better than placebo. But I am not a millionaire or a billionaire so I can’t.
These arguments are utterly pointless and ridiculous.
Why don’t you list your concerns regarding CS in a clear and concise way and let people attempt to address them, rather than these pointless arguments?
I am sure you are an intelligent and good man, as am I. So let’s work together to achieve a common goal rather than be constantly black/white, right/wrong. Life isn’t like that.
All the best
The Worm
Not just the placebo effect, but the null hypothesis, which includes the placebo effect. The question of whether the placebo effect can be explained is incidental: you can deliver the same placebo effect by drinking coloured water instead of colloidal silver, so unless colloidal silver is 100% free of side effects (which it clearly is not) then it is unjustifiable.
The problem is not users but proselytisers. People who dismiss the evidence and make assertions of effect. There is no credible evidence of effect, so these claims are misleading. There is inherent harm in making misleading claims for purported health interventions.
Do come back when you have better evidence. That is, historically, the only thing that works when arguing with scientifically literate people.
“Do come back when you have better evidence” – what a charmer!
Like I said before – there is no evidence that would meet your requirements and I cannot see it being generated unless a pharma company or government(s) are willing to fund it.
Prior to the type of study that you or the current scientific world will accept, people often relied on anecdotal evidence.
What do you propose? How can the studies you and other “anti-CS” group(s) so desperately wish for be generated?
How can the use of CS (or just silver) for various ailments have existed for hundreds if not thousands of years if there wasn’t something in it? I think you are being slightly blinkered.
We need solutions not problems!
Eh? It was an open invitation to come back when you have better evidence.
The evidence you have right now is crap, and if you continue to peddle it here you will just get shredded over and over again.
Don’t shoot the messenger!
“How can the use of CS (or just silver) for various ailments have existed for hundreds if not thousands of years if there wasn’t something in it?”
Replace ‘CS (or just silver)’ with ‘bloodletting’. Can you spot the fallacy?
Nobody advocates blood letting anymore do they? It was a method adopted by a small amount of learned thinkers at the time and didn’t stand the test of time.
Yes, those agencies do indeed prevent people form selling product. Shamefully, the supplement industry lobbied for legislation that allows it to sell virtually anything without evidence of safety or efficacy – legislation sponsored by stakeholders in the industry, imagine the shitstorm if “Big Pharma” tried that! – so they have limited powers to regulate even dangerous supplements; there’s pretty much a reversal of the usual burden of evidence for supplements, regulators have to prove they are dangerous rather than manufacturers prove they are safe, and actually the legislation prevents the regulators even looking in many cases.
But CS doesn’t “work for you”. It doesn’t work for anybody, that’s the conclusion from the evidence. You don’t get to choose whether you have human physiology or not.
Bloodletting didn’t stand the test of evidence based medicine – much like colloidal silver. Certain quack therapies continue to advocate the use of bloodletting, notably Unani and Ayurveda.
Colloidal Silver hasn’t been able to have been tested against “evidence based medicine” (assuming you are referring to sponsored clinical studies) because there is no vested interest in such studies. Do you comprehend that? There WILL NEVER BE SUCH STUDIES. This is not because it doesn’t work, but because there would be no return on the investment. Crikey this is getting boring now!!!!
Thousands of pieces of anecdotal evidence are not enough for any of you because they weren’t published in a peer reviewed journal. I am shocked at the closed-mindedness of my fellow humans on this planet, honestly I am.
As for your sweeping statements about treatments such as Ayurveda that has survived the test of time for hundreds perhaps thousands of years as being quackery. Well that speaks volumes about you.
There have been no clinical studies of CS because there is no proof of efficacy. It’s really that simple but I’m sure you prefer evil Big Pharma conspiracy theories.
Michael Warren states “There have been no clinical studies of CS because there is no proof of efficacy.”
Now that one really takes the biscuit. Clinical studies are designed to test a number of things but the critical things for pivotal studies are safety and of course efficacy. So to say what you just said really shows you up as being very much out of your depth.
Proof of efficacy in the world of evidence based science (i.e. the registration of medicines) can only really be obtained from clinical studies (Phase III pivotal studies), unless of course we were looking at a long established product (i.e. before modern day regulations) with vast amounts of anecdotal/clinical evidence (ahem!).
Do you see how ridiculous your statement is now?
Do feel free to explain how an institutional review board could be persuaded to sanction a clinical trial for a treatment that has no remotely plausible basis in fact.
@ Guy Chapman – You say “But CS doesn’t “work for you”. It doesn’t work for anybody, that’s the conclusion from the evidence. You don’t get to choose whether you have human physiology or not.”
First you say there is no evidence (well evidence that you trust i.e. published peer-reviewed data) and now you say that the evidence says it doesn’t work. I am very confused.
As I said earlier, please point me to the evidence you are using to draw your conclusions that it doesn’t work. In this instance I only accept published, peer-reviewed evidence from clinical studies (preferably placebo controlled and double blind).
Are you starting to see the ridiculousness of these arguments?
Worm, you don’t get to choose whether you have normal human physiology. The claims used to promote colloidal silver are inconsistent with human physiology.
You think I fail to address your questions because they are rhetorical quesiotns and they embody the assumption that you’re right.
In fact, you’re wrong. That makes most of your questions unanswerable. A bit like, “given that pigs fly, how come there are no sightings of flying pigs?”
@ Guy Chapman – you say “The claims used to promote colloidal silver are inconsistent with human physiology.” Please explain what claims you refer to and where the inconsistencies lie? To clarify, I have made no claims with regards to the mechanism of action of nano-particles of silver, I have only stated that historical anecdotal evidence exists and that it works for me.
With regards to me being right, what are you referring to? I believe I am correct in my assumption that clinical trials that would please you will not be sponsored by pharmaceutical companies (nor sadly governments).
As for your comment “Do feel free to explain how an institutional review board could be persuaded to sanction a clinical trial for a treatment that has no remotely plausible basis in fact.”; an IRB or EC would be looking to see whether a trial would be ethically sound, likely to have a scientific basis and that human subjects would be safe. They wouldn’t allow a large phase III style study to commence without a thorough review of existing data (where it exists). In all probability they would allow a Phase I/II study to commence in healthy human subjects as silver has been shown to be safe (hence its use in water purification, wound dressings, etc).
But we are back to the same point. Who would fund these studies when there is no commercial incentive to do so?
There is loads of information to be found by searching Google Patents and Google Scholar on both silver nanoparticles and colloidal silver. There are companies looking to create novel delivery devices (I recall seeing something about one for COPD I believe but need to search).
There is a useful article here on Dr Mercola’s website, but I imagine he is not to be trusted, correct?
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/03/antibiotics-colloidal-silver.aspx?e_cid=20130703_DNL_JLY4A50MIN_JLY4BAN_art_1&utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20130703JLY4A50MIN
I will not comment on bullshit sourced from Mercola. Feel free to cite a credible source and then we can discuss it.
Mercola? An osteopath, anti-vaxxer, HIV/Aids denialist who makes millions by selling quack remedies to the ill-informed and vulnerable? Who else would we go to for medical advice?
Ha ha, as expected. The trouble is, you won’t answer any of my questions regardless of their source. Here is a list of those unanswered questions for you and any other readers of this blog:
• Can you explain placebo effect? Can anyone?
• Why don’t you list your concerns regarding CS in a clear and concise way and let people attempt to address them, rather than these pointless arguments?
• What do you propose? How can the studies you and other “anti-CS” group(s) so desperately wish for be generated?
• How can the use of CS (or just silver) for various ailments have existed for hundreds if not thousands of years if there wasn’t something in it?
• Colloidal Silver hasn’t been able to have been tested against “evidence based medicine” (assuming you are referring to sponsored clinical studies) because there is no vested interest in such studies. Do you comprehend that?
• As I said earlier, please point me to the evidence you are using to draw your conclusions that it doesn’t work.
• @ Guy Chapman – you say “The claims used to promote colloidal silver are inconsistent with human physiology.” Please explain what claims you refer to and where the inconsistencies lie?
• With regards to me being right, what are you referring to?
• But we are back to the same point. Who would fund these studies when there is no commercial incentive to do so?
• Contradicted by the best available evidence? What is this evidence you speak of? Or is it opinions?
• As for evidence I provide, what evidence have I given, other than my own experience?
• You constantly fail to address my questions but continue to assert that I am making claims for the use of CS. Why?
• CS works for me and I dare say thousands of others out there. Where are all the blue people? Where are all the people with adverse events from taking it? What is the harm, so long as people are not attempting to make spurious claims or rip people off?
So as you can see, a vast amount of unanswered questions from you, with a few insults at me thrown in for good measure. You are dismissive of Ayurveda, evidence of silver’s vast historical success as an antimicrobial/antiseptic, of Dr Mercola’s research (regardless of his personal beliefs, which I imagine you have quoted incorrectly anyway).
I think any open-minded reader of this blog could see that you both bring nothing of any benefit to such a blog; just conflict!
@Worm: That word “evidence”. You keep using it, but I don’t think it means what you think it means.
Ditto “question”. And “source”. And “works”.
Further avoidance of any of the questions. It doesn’t really matter. You are under no obligation to answer them.
Millions of people use CS to treat themselves. Hospitals etc continue to use silver in their applications/devices. Pre-clin/clinical trials continue to use silver-based products. Yet you remain stuck in your way that it is all quackery and based on lies and deception.
I said previously that I am happy to answer questions where I feel qualified to do so.
What one key question would you like me to answer? Is it what is my interpretation of evidence? Well if so, evidence comes in a number of forms and its reliability varies greatly. You seem to dismiss any evidence that doesn’t support your theory. I have previously said that IF someone or a company were willing to support studies (meeting your standards) and these read out CS’s failings to be greater than the mystical placebo or a standard treatment option for something such as treating a chest infection, then I would happily STFU about CS.
What would it take to make you accept CS as a valid treatment option and how do you propose gaining such evidence would be possible?
Worm, the only avoidance going on here is your advocacy of avoidance-based medicine. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/blahg/2012/08/avoidance-based-medicine/
That’s a long list of questions and I can’t address them all in one post.
Colloidal Silver hasn’t been able to have been tested against “evidence based medicine” (assuming you are referring to sponsored clinical studies) because there is no vested interest in such studies. Do you comprehend that?
It is easy to comprehend. It’s nothing to do with patents or Big Pharma conspiracies. It is about prior plausibility.
http://sciencepharmer.wordpress.com/2013/06/12/evidence-based-medicine-and-prior-plausibility/
There are no good reasons to suppose that CS can deliver what is claimed for it, therefore no-one is going to spend money investigating it.
What do you propose? How can the studies you and other “anti-CS” group(s) so desperately wish for be generated?
I am not a member of an anti-CS group. Studies could be funded by the alternative medicine industry. They have the resouuces, why don’t they fund studies?
http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/smartnews/2013/06/alternative-medicine-is-a-34-billion-dollar-industry-but-only-one-third-of-the-treatments-have-been-tested-for-safety-and-efficacy/
@ Guy Chapman – wow! I have just seen your two blogs (perhaps you have more). You certainly seem to have a lot to say about a lot of things. It seems to make sense to me now. You appear to dedicate a lot of time to this “hobby” of yours.
Not sure how you can be an expert on everything. But I certainly detect a LOT of negativity in the areas I read. Are you on a one man crusade to save the world from “quacks” and what you perceive as dodgy medicine?
I fear it is utterly pointless to enter into a dialogue regarding CS with you as I doubt anything would ever convince you, even if a major pharma company started manufacturing it!!
Good luck with your hobby but be warned, the Internet can become all consuming and may (further) distance you from the real world.
All the best – The Worm (not my real name)
It was more the tone of your post I was referring to. Am I not free to peruse and comment on the site as much as I like, or only when I have fulfilled your requirements for study data? Which I dare say is currently impossible to obtain. Or to put it another way, I cannot win if I were to play your game.
As for evidence I provide, what evidence have I given, other than my own experience? It worked for me. Great.
I am not peddling anything.
I do not come for an argument. It would be great if you answered my questions from the previous post though. No obligation to do so of course.
You misread my intent. It was as I explained. Coming here advocating a view contradicted by the best available evidence isn’t terribly smart.
Contradicted by the best available evidence? What is this evidence you speak of? Or is it opinions?
Here’s a handy summary:
“Since about 1990, there has been a resurgence of the promotion of colloidal silver as a dietary supplement or homeopathic remedy, marketed with claims of it being an essential mineral supplement, or that it can prevent or treat numerous diseases, such as cancer, diabetes, HIV/AIDS, herpes, and tuberculosis. No medical evidence supports the effectiveness of colloidal silver for any of these claimed indications. Silver is not an essential mineral in humans; there is no dietary requirement for silver, and no such thing as a silver “deficiency”. There is no evidence that colloidal silver treats or prevents any medical condition, and it can cause serious and potentially irreversible side effects such as argyria. In August 1999, the U.S. FDA banned colloidal silver sellers from claiming any therapeutic or preventive value for the product, although silver-containing products continue to be promoted as dietary supplements in the U.S. under the looser regulatory standards applied to supplements. The FDA has issued numerous Warning Letters to Internet sites that have continued to promote colloidal silver as an antibiotic or for other medical purposes. Despite the efforts of the FDA, silver products remain widely available on the market today. A review of websites promoting nasal sprays containing colloidal silver suggested that information about silver-containing nasal sprays on the internet is misleading and inaccurate.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_uses_of_silver#Alternative_medicine
I totally agree with the FDA, MHRA, EMA or any other MEDICINES regulatory agency claiming that it is illegal to make medicinal claims for anything that does not have the evidence to back it up. I am totally with you on that.
None of these agencies prevent people from selling product though and I would hazard a guess that they all know it is safe when prepared properly.
Why don’t you do a FOI request to determine the number or argyria cases or indeed any other cases of adverse effects from the use of properly prepared CS solutions. I would be EXTREMELY confident that it has less reported effects over the last 20 years than any medicine has in the last 12 months!!
You constantly fail to address my questions but continue to assert that I am making claims for the use of CS. Why?
CS works for me and I dare say thousands of others out there. Where are all the blue people? Where are all the people with adverse events from taking it? What is the harm, so long as people are not attempting to make spurious claims or rip people off?
Here are a couple of articles on the Daily Mail website:
1) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4051/Silvers-good-gold.html
2) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2344583/Silver-really-COULD-new-weapon-superbugs-Adding-antibiotics-boosts-effectiveness-1-000-times.html
With regards to 2) above, this is interesting that a combination of antibiotics and nanoparticle silver (i.e. generating a potentially patentable product) is being developed. However, the anti CS then begins…
“Although silver has long been known to have anti-bacterial properties, if used alone, it has to be given in such high amounts that it can be poisonous to the body.” – this is totally unsubstantiated in the article and is in my opinion inaccurate. It doesn’t mention what type of silver would need to be consumed in “such high amounts”, what about nanoparticle sized?
Interesting though that they continue with “The experiments suggest it [nanoparticle size silver] will be safe to use it in very small amounts with existing antibiotics.” This suggests that studies of toxicity of nanoparticles in animals could be carried out (not that I am condoning that) with a view to proving safe but efficacious levels of dosage in humans. But hey, where is the profit in that!
They admit that it is the silver that irreversibly damages the bacteria cells and in my humble opinion, the synthetic antibiotic merely speeds the process that the natural immune system would be able to carry out on its own.
The Worm, I assume you are aware that not all medical research is by Pharma companies, and academic research would look at this IF it was plausible, regardless of the profit motive. Yet it has not been picked up, because it is implausible. There is research into nanoparticle sized silver, but that is not what is being sold over the internet, so to relate that research tot eh products currently being sold dangerously by quacks is wrong. That is even before you look at selling something BEFORE you research it as being plain wrong.
What is it with this plausibility argument that at least 3 of you (assuming you are not the same person) keep mentioning? Of course it is plausible that nanosized particles of silver delivered to the body in safe amounts may have an effect on circulating pathogens. What on earth is not plausible about that?
With regards to research into silver being an anti microbial/anti septic, there is a HUGE amount of evidence out there to support this. It is a FACT. Do you deny it?
As for running large clinical studies to support its use in humans as a medicine, I have already explained this will not happen unless government(s) back it in a purely philanthropic manner. Academic researchers have budgets, they want a return on their investments and I doubt very much ANY are willing to spend the money required to carry out such clinical studies. But as I explained before, you would struggle to go ahead straight into Phase I/II studies (healthy humans) without pre-clinical data available, however it is not impossible. HOWEVER, this would only ever be funded if a return on the investment would be sought – which it won’t be unless it is in a novel-patentable device, or in the case of above, combined with an antibiotic. But as stated above, this is really the silver doing the hard work and then the antibiotic getting in to finish the job (which I believe the immune system in most cases could achieve).
As for the alternative health industry having billions of pounds to invest, how do you propose they achieve this? Pool their money together and make an application for a marketing authorisation(s) for CS in various treatments after investing 100’s of millions in pre-clin/clinical trials?
What would happen when they get their licence(s)? All sign an agreement to sell the same product and then pool the revenue together and then distribute fairly between the investing companies?
Starting to see how ridiculous that argument is?
Investment in medicines ONLY really happens if exclusivity can be guaranteed. That is the world we have all created.
I am one person and I speak for myself and no-one else.
You wrote:”With regards to research into silver being an anti microbial/anti septic, there is a HUGE amount of evidence out there to support this. It is a FACT. Do you deny it?”
Yes, I do deny it, as does a Cochrane Review.
http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD005082/silver-based-wound-dressings-and-topical-agents-containing-silver-for-treating-diabetic-foot-ulcers
– which brings us back to prior plausibilty.
Is that it? A single solitary cochrane review into one disease area and for one type of silver-based product. That is enough for you to determine that silver has no use and is quackery? Please!
According to the very brief abstract I read it states “They searched the medical literature for randomised and controlled clinical trials but found no studies which were eligible for inclusion”. I do not know what their eligibility criteria is. Perhaps you could enlighten us. I am also not surprised that many of these types of study exist as they are not necessary to gain an indication (if it can be called that) for the use of wound dressings, as far as I am away. Although happy to be proved wrong as I am not a medical device expert.
As far as I and countless others are concerned CS remains plausible in the context I described in my previous post.
You asked for evidence, I gave you evidence. You have been asked for evidence, you provided none.
Cochrane Reviews have been described as, “the best single resource for methodologic research and for developing the science of meta-epidemiology.”
Unsurprisingly they are not very popular with quacks.
This cochrane summary found that one study showed a faster reduction in the overall size of ulcers when a silver-containing foam was applied. Still not plausible?
http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD005486/topical-silver-for-treating-infected-wounds.
Why would it be a surprise that applying silver to an ulcer would have an effect? Silver has an effect on bacteria, bacteria cause ulcers. That has nothing to do with the claims made for drinking colloidal silver, which is based on a completely different (and wrong) theory.
Oh, and antibiotics have a *larger* effect on ulcers. So silver works less well than standard of care. Nobody with any sense would use it in this context.
@ Guy Chapman – What are the claims being made for drinking colloidal silver? Who is making these claims and more importantly who is acting upon / believing them? What is the different / wrong theory you refer to? You are extremely good at providing unsubstantiated claims/remarks.
Antibiotics have a larger effect on ulcers? Do they indeed? And it is the standard of care is it? Why?
My relative had a long standing ulcer on her leg. She used antibiotics, made her very unwell (in fact 3 different types were given to her and she is in her 90’s). Great for the manufacturer, not so good for her gut and health!! They then opted for compression bandages but after they just made her leg rancid due to failing to provide adequate duty of care (i.e. didn’t bother changing them), they opted for option 3, honey. This had some effect but still not great. Guess what was next… yep you guessed it Silver coated bandages. This was topped with a treatment of biochemic tissue salts, pulsed electromagnetic therapy (localised and whole body), good quality oral pre/pro-biotic and CS (20 ppm) applied topically by her caring grand son and guess what, the quackery completely cured her ulcer in no time at all.
Go figure!
As for you not wanting to read that article – no surprises whatsoever.
Listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_uses_of_silver#Alternative_medicine
@ Guy Chapman – are you seriously basing all of your thoughts on that Wikipedia entry and the associated references? How much research do you think the Wiki author did? To me it looks like about a good 20-30 mins of googling. I see he/she refers to a literature review carried out in 1996 that talks about these claims being made. I am still yet to find any reference to who is making these claims for CS and what exactly they are. Then I see there is a link to the NCCAM, which attempts to scare people with claims such as “There is no scientific evidence for effectiveness and a severe risk for serious side effects from colloidal silver.”
A severe risk for serious side effects from colloidal silver!!!!!! Wow! I think that says it all really.
No, I am basing my thoughts on the published evidence. It’s neatly summarised by Wikipedia (that is, after all, pretty much what Wikipedia is for).
Obviously if I wanted to base my thoughts on the soothsayings of the prophets of the church of almighty silver, then I could read your posts and the sources you prefer, but I am rather more inclined to follow the reality-based approach.
This is worth a read – http://www.mynaturesrite.com/pdfs/silvertoxicity.pdf
Not really, no. Not unless you’re a True Believer looking for confirmation of your faith, anyway.
Did you read it, or was it just dismissed on general principle?
I read it. Why do promoters of quackery always think that to understand a claim is to believe it?
It is interesting because it explains how the fear mongering myth of CS causing argyria and these mystical unexplained and unsubstantiated “serious side effects” is BS. It is based on previous examples of silver salts or badly made CS (created with salt during the preparation stage to create silver chloride) but as a result all of the anti-CS brigade jump on the serious side effect/argyria bus and shout from the roof as loud as possible.
As I said before. Where are all the blue people? Where are all the reports of serious side effects? … tumbleweed
I see my tumbleweed comment was accurate – lol
I’m sorry, is there an SLA on responding to Gish-galloping cranks in blog comment threads now?
Q: Are there documented ill-effects due to consumption of colloidal silver?
A: Yes.
Q: Are there provable benefits to offset these effects?
A: No.
And that’s all there is to it.
What are the ill-effects due to consumption of colloidal silver? Where is the evidence to support your claims?
Are there provable benefits? Scan the internet for reports of positive benefits. As for the evidence YOU require, I think that has been done to death on this blog alone!!
Already dealt with. Known and documented effects include argyria (to which your only response invokes the “No True Scotsman” fallacy).
In the absence of any credible evidence of benefit, the existence of any possible side-effect, no matter what the dose, makes promotion of colloidal silver indefensible.
That’s your problem. Chiropractors can at least claim that their back-cracking seems to work about as well as evidence-based manipulation, though this is still unpersuasive as a claim to offset the documented risk of vertebral artery dissection and stroke; you don’t even have that.
Not only is there no credible evidence that colloidal silver benefits health, it’s also illegal to make health claims for it in the UK and the US.
Already dealt with? Where? Argyria, is that the one you refer to? How many cases of it from using colloidal silver in the last 20 years? What exactly were they taking? True colloidal silver (i.e. 10/20 ppm silver from 99.9% pure silver + purified or distilled water to EP standard)?
Where is the evidence, actual hard, reported side effects evidence? I can’t find any.
It is illegal to make medicinal claims in the UK. I am not sure about the US situation but I would imagine the same. This is because the studies and licences to sell as medicine haven’t been carried out in these countries (already answered that above).
Are you trying to get CS banned from being sold in the UK/US outright? Is that your agenda? If so, why? Where is the harm. People can still make their own. What are you going to do lobby the government to get a special task force in place to do house to house searches?
As I said before, we should be working together to gather the evidence to attempt to prove its safety/efficacy in studies, assuming earlier pre-clin work makes it a suitable candidate. But I guess we come back to the failed plausibility argument there. The millions of previous and present users are all mentally deluded and it is only in their imagination that any of the positive effects from using CS have occurred.
The fact that you are in denial is self-evident, you do not have to keep proving it.
In denial? About what? Where is the evidence of side effects? You are the one who keeps mentioning it not me.
I have already said that the evidence you require for proof of efficacy/safety in the format that meets your standards does not exist and in my opinion will never be sponsored. You I am sure will say its because it doesn’t work, which is difficult to justify if the studies have not been done!
The millions of previous and current users will say it does work and not all of them are making money from it. So what is their motivation? To piss you off?
I’m confused as to why you are so passionate about this? Who are you trying to help?
Yup, that’s exactly what I mean. In denial.
Thanks for playing “troll the skeptic”, you lose this round.
Have you taken leave of your senses? You seem incapable of answering a question(s).
What am I in denial about?
Where is the evidence of side effects from CS (prepared as explained above)?
Two very simple questions. Over to you…
No, worm, I have not taken leave of my senses. That’s why I believe the medical literature instead of bullshit anecdotes about miracle cures from nameless dudes on the internet.
After all, the anecdotes are identical in respect of colloidal silver, “miracle mineral” (i.e. bleach), DMSO, reiki and all manner of other mutually contradictory quackeries. Believe one, you have to believe them all, and that way lies madness (as anybody who has ever encountered whale.to will confirm).
And in response to the two very clear questions I asked…
Why do you think that ignoring the answers and repeating the questions is a valid debating technique? Only delusional fucktards do that.
Oh, wait…
Ha ha. Didn’t take long for the insults to start. I’ll just take that last response to mean you have no answer to the questions. As for whether I’m a delusional fucktard, you’re entitled to your opinion, regardless of how deluded it is.
The first insult was to the intelligence of everyone here, and it came from you.
As I say, ignoring the answers (or pretending they are not valid) and repeating the questions, is invalid.
You lose.
OK then, for the “delusional fucktards” like me and for ultimate clarity (and apologies if you are having to repeat yourself)…
What am I in denial about?
Where is the evidence of side effects from CS (prepared as explained above)?
I promise I won’t ask those questions again if you answer them for me.
1. See 2.
2. The evidence of side effects was posted here over two years ago.
I think we’re done here.
Are we referring to this?
“As well as argyria, according to NCCAM, side effects may include neurologic problems (such as seizures), kidney damage, stomach distress, headaches, fatigue, and skin irritation. Colloidal silver may also interfere with the body’s absorption of some drugs, such as penacillamine, quinolones, tetracyclines, and thyroxine. I don’t have time to look for the instances they’re referring to here and will trust NCAM on this. If you doubt what they are saying, then I suggest you look into it yourself…I have been told by the MHRA that colloidal silver has never been licensed as a medicine but was in use as an antibiotic until the 1930s.”
Is this the evidence you are referring to? As posted by the creator of this anti-CS blog/thread/tripe.
So you are relying on the NCCAM saying that silver (with no definition of how it is produced, quality or quantity) MAY have side effects that include neurologic problems, kidney damage, stomach distress etc. And that it MAY also interfere with the body’s absorption of some drugs (even though they are developing a product that combines nanosized silver with synthetic antibiotics).
And you claim it is me that doesn’t understand evidence and is deluded!!!
Interesting that up until the 1930s the MHRA admits that silver was a first line antibiotic. I wonder why that advice changed when a patented product came out. No doubt you will claim (without evidence to support) that it was due to the silver being ineffectual or unsafe.
Are you still the winner?
http://www.today.com/health/real-life-blue-man-dies-after-heart-attack-stroke-4B11243410
You lose.
A man who is blue dies from unknown causes. As sad as it is for him to have passed on, that shows absolutely nothing in relation to the use of CS prepared as described in earlier posts now does it?
I remember watching the video of this guy and it is interesting to note that he continued to use CS even after turning blue and he confirmed that it did indeed clear up his skin conditions. So even with the worst effects of argyria, which are according to the NCCAM not harmful, he continued to use the product – it must have been doing something for him!
I’m still not convinced that I am the loser here.
And why was he blue? Oh yes, argyria, which was caused by colloidal silver. Which you deny. Because you’re a True Believer.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, colloidal silver has known and documented side effects and zero provable medicinal benefit to offset them, therefore it is indefensible.
When I first started reading this blog I thought that you had the potential to make some useful comments and to have a meaningful discussion. I was wrong.
I don’t deny that large compounds containing silver have the potential to aggregate in the skin and following sun exposure lead to argyria. I accept that in extremely rare instances this has occurred with individuals who have consumed silver containing products (not necessarily and very doubtful from well manufactured 10 or 20 ppm CS).
You do not seem capable of accepting anything that lies outside of your very narrow and somewhat blinkered view on life.
In the same way you feel obliged to cry out from the roof tops about the theoretical (i.e. unproven) dangers of silver, I feel it necessary to bring balance to the unsubstantiated claims that you and others like you make that have the potential to damage the already threatened alternative/complementary health industry.
Where you say “documented side effects”, this means very little. Proven with valid evidence would be better. Provable medicinal benefits [of presumably CS] is impossible because CS is not a registered medicine.
Translation: you thought you might be able to snow some people with the usual alt-med bollocks. You discovered you could not, because we’ve seen it all thousands of times before. You are now looking for a way out that does not admit a spank.
Off you go, don’t let the door bang you on the arse on the way out.
What on earth are you talking about?
You seem to have made a career of blogging (as per the links you previously provided). I would say it is in your interest to keep plugging away at the “alternative medicine is bullshit” theory. But I hate to shatter your dreams, you are in the minority. Alternative/complementary health is starting to threaten allopathic medicine these days.
I am going nowhere buddy. I am happy to defend everything I have posted as it is all based on fact or educated common sense. Not sure the same can be said about you or your posts.
My arse will certainly not be getting banged today!
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Conservapedia:Last_Wordism
Scraping the barrel now aren’t we?
A document which comes from a website which sells colloidal silver. You haven’t got the hang of this ‘evidence’ thing have you?
The website owners seem to have come to the attention of the FDA.
http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/ucm273464.htm
I think I am more than qualified to understand evidence 😉
So why don’t you then?
You are a complete idiot! We are all making our own colloidal silver now, its easy to make and I am using entirely and utterly for medicinal purposes which must irritate mindless fanatics like you no end ha ha ha ha!!!
I make my own CS too. Since it costs pennies to make I can give away bucket load of it to friends and family if I am feeling generous, or sell it for a few quid if I am not. It isn’t a panacea for everything, it won’t mend your broken leg for instance. But I am speaking from experience not wishful when I say that it works, Sometimes spectacularly so. And if all that will happen is that I might turn blue if I act like an idiot and overdose on it., Then that’s a pretty small price to pay compared to what might happen to me if I had to recourse to drug peddling organization called Big Pharma.
Dear JJ, Bangkok in January 2014
Following for some time your information/comments concerning CS, I have to make you and your colleagues; Mr Guy, Mr xxxx, a compliment concerning your replies to the people who dare to write about the benefits of CS. Also completely agree with You that a lot of nonsense is published from both sides ( pro and contra CS) CS is definitely not a cure for everything and in my humble opinion, it should be used using common sense, after all you also do not take 20 pieces of vitamin C at a time, right?
I admire your well versed replies, however often not substantiated, convincing, sometimes contradicting or just rude.
It also seems that you all are in support of the FDA or the British FDA, and follow their advice blindly, like for instance the use of prescription drugs vaccination programs etc.
Get the feeling that you are professionals in writing or commenting on this issue.
Some people have mentioned that you most likely are being paid by the Pharma-industry, I don’t believe that, since approximately 5/8 years the Pharma industry is not hiring people to write articles in their favor this is done by PR agencies, more elegant, subtle and more direct (mostly more fear mongering etc.) than the various Pharma sponsored web sites like Pubmed, Quackwatch and MD etc.
However I am a happy and convinced user of CS, make it myself and also CS gel.
How did I come to this?
MY STORY
About 8 years ago I was on a business trip to Europe and ended up in a hospital with an acute Appendix problem and needed surgery.
The hospital was a well-known and respected one, received after the usual testing surgery; everything went smoothly, after surgery, putting a drain etc.
However after a few days I got fever and the surface wound did not heal properly so I got lots of antibiotics, round after round but the problem got worse! The doctors where talking already about surgery again!
Then someone advised me to apply CS and within 3 days things were looking much better, no renewed surgery necessary.
After leaving the hospital I started to search CS and its applications, since that time I am convinced about CS.
Have also attached an original text from the FDA concerning CS.
I certainly do not want to change your mindset concerning CS, otherwise You may have to find other sponsors!
Hope that you will find time to read this letter and would be delighted when publishing it.
Wish you good fortune, long life and health
Kind regards
Picoranton
————————————
request to the FDA
October 14th, 1999
Food and Drug Administration
U.S. Department Of Health and
Human Services
Public Health Service
5600 Fishers Lane
Rockville, MD 20857
Dear Sirs/Madam,
Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act and in regard your August 17th, 1999 ruling regarding colloidal silver, could you please supply the following documentation on which you based your decision?
1. The number of deaths related to the consumption of colloidal silver. 2. The number of allergic reactions to the consumption of colloidal silver. 3. The number of harmful drug interactions from both OTC and prescription drugs when combined with colloidal silver. 4. The number of reported cases of Argyria from colloidal silver made with the AC or DC electrical process. 5. The number of cases of Argyria from colloidal silver that did or did not contain protein stabilizers.
Thank you for your time and consideration of this request.
Sincerely,
[name removed]
Here’s the FDA short but very revealing response to this Freedom of Information Act request for negative consumer information on colloidal silver:
Public Health Service
Center for Drug Evaluation and Research
Office of Training and Communication
Freedom of Information Staff HFD-205
5600 Fishers Lane 12 B 05
Rockville, Maryland 20857
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
November 3, 1999
In Response Refer to File: F99-22589
[ Name Removed ]
Dear [ name removed ]:
This is in response to your request of 10/14/99, in which you requested adverse events associated with the use of Colloidal Silver.
Your request was received in the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research on 10/25/99.
We have searched the records from FDA’s Adverse Event Reporting System (AERS) and have been unable to locate any cases that would be responsive to your request.
Charges of $3.50 (Search $3.50, Review $0, Reproduction $0, Computer time $0) will be included in a monthly invoice.
DO NOT SEND ANY PAYMENT UNTIL YOU RECEIVE AN INVOICE.
If there are any problems with this response, please notify us in writing of your specific problem(s). Please reference the above file number.
Sincerely,
Hal Stepper
Freedom of Information Technician
Office of Training and Communications
Freedom of Information Staff, HFD-205
As you can see, the FDA response for information on negative consumer data on colloidal silver was underwhelming to say the least.
Indeed, they had nothing negative to say about colloidal silver when given the chance to reveal its supposed dangers.
They had no documentation of any deaths, allergic reactions, drug interactions, Argyria reports, or anything else negative for that matter.
Only one thing is missing from your lengthy reply: any credible evidence CS works as advertised by quacks.
That just shows that CS was not issued by medical professionals with a responsibility to report under the AERS system. Quacks who use it do not have to report anything to anyone they are unlicensed and unregulated.
I haven’t read all of the comments, but to me it’s clear that there always been two types of people, who believe in what they being told by government and others who questioning whether it’s so or not. Same as in ll world war or etc. then people been told in Germany that jewish people are bad and should be killed and some understood that it’s wrong. So some thinks that it’s government trying for them and others think themselves and don’t believe in everything what few say. In our society it’s like that few said and millions has to do so. But logically should be opposite. Who is given to hear is listening and who is given to see is looking and finds.
@Andrius – there is “believing whatever you are told” which seem to be the people who listen to whatever Dr. Oz or Mercola or whomever alternative guru is in fashion this week, and those that actual examine the evidence available and are able to make determinations from there…..
“there is “believing whatever you are told” which seem to be the people who listen to whatever Dr. Oz or Mercola or whomever alternative guru is in fashion this week” Lo Arabia
My dear boy whether it’s the bible or medical peer review it is all about belief systems. If you think the BMJ or Lancet are somehow bastions of the truth then you are more stupid than you come across in your posts, sorry but stupid is stupid
I have used CS for years to no adverse affect.
“I was all fired up, fresh from complaining about osteopathy and the Guardian and fired back an immediate reply:” JJ
What is your condition called JJ? I mean do you seriously get off on complaining about stuff?
@chaggle – nope, see you can believe in something which has no scientific basis in fact…or you can know, based on what can be proven and is scientific fact…you seem to be one that believes….so I have a bridge I’d like to sell you.
Hey Lawrence, Is that like believing in flu vaccination? No matter how many studies show it is woo, even the insert in Flulaval says “there are no robust studies that show a decrease in influenza disease with the use of this product”
What we have learned from these sites is that medical science does not equate with other science, medical science is PR woo and other kinds of quasi pseudo science, especially when we look at the woo of vaccination.
@Chaggle – when you say things like that, it is impossible to take you seriously.
Yah your a complete buffoon. This link I’m including goes to a department of defense study ( American military ) and thisstudy conclusively proves that colloidal silver kills everything from bacteria to EBOLA virus. If you were half as competent at researching products as you are at complaining about them you will find several studies written by various medical agencies, governments, doctors, and politicians that all conclusively demonstrate silvers remarkable abilities.
Click to access defense-threat-reduction-agency-silver-nanoparticles-neutralize-hemorrhagic-fever-viruses.pdf
I personally produce my own colloidal silver and I am also a hospital employee and during the 5 years I have produced and consumed it I have not gotten sick, I have had no infections and I also use it topically to treat burns and cuts. So if you still have nothing better to do with your time other than being a mouth piece for big pharma maybe you will click my link and educate yourself. Remember that report is declassified American military literature so it wasn’t done by some hillbilly in a shed pretending to be a professional. Much like I assume you must be
You seem to have accidentally linked to a Powerpoint presentation by mistake instead of the study you promised. Can you give the correct url?
“An Essex internet trader has been prosecuted for a second time by Trading
Standards for selling a food supplement which he claimed could cure cancer.
In September 2013, Steve Cook, trading as Colloidal Silver UK, was convicted for two offences, for selling a prohibited food supplement and for claiming that the food could cure diseases.
The business had undertaken to stop making false claims on its website, but in November 2013, had not made the changes required by Trading
Standards. It was then noted by Trading Standards Officers that the trader was claiming that the food, colloidal silver, could cure cancer.
This is strictly forbidden by the Cancer Act 1939, to protect members of the public who might be desperate to try anything to help a loved one who is suffering from cancer.
The trader finally pleaded guilty on 12 September 2014 at Colchester
Magistrates’ Court to a charge under the Cancer Act 1939. He was fined £750 and the Department was awarded £1500 costs. Mr Cook has indicated to our officers that he will now concentrate on his previous career as a lift engineer and will leave the world of colloidal silver behind him.”
Essex County Council Trading Standards Update September 2014
Click to access Trading_standards_newsletter.pdf
Colloidal silver has been around for more than 4,000 years and was discovered by Egyptians. People have been using the silver solution since then to cure a multitude of diseases, pure fact
4000 year history, sounds to me more convincing (no fatalities!) that the Chemical based,so called prescribed and approved (many fatalities!) As I wrote you maybe last year, I saved my life by using it! (make it myself already for several years!)
How do you know?
To Alan Hennes, what do you mean exactly?
How do you know the things you claimed?
I started using colloidal silver for a chest infection that would not clear even after using antibiotics. It cleared it up within a few days. I am happy with the results. Please allow people to use preparations if they want. The general public are not stupid and we can do without silly people like yourself.
CS works for me. Had a chronic rash due to Schaumberg’s disease, for which I was taking 2 doses of antibiotics for 2 years, to no avail. Started taking 1tsp of CS per day and applying it topically. Within 2 months, the rash is completely gone, albeit there is a scar. I give it to my dogs and their coats are beautiful and have never been sick. You would have to take massive amounts to result in argyria and anyone who would take CS has undoubtedly done some research, which is available in abundance, along with all of its benefits, dosage, and how to manufacture. Since everyone is looking for some sort of “proof” that it does work, until there are PROVEN side affects, I will continue to make my own CS and provide to whomever wants some. What I won’t do is trust my government or any Big Pharma propaganda against its usage, or any other reason, for that matter. People need to focus on being self-sufficient instead of relying on the government and corporations for their very existence.